Re: Study Hall.

[Jim]

The more original proto Indo-European approach is so old, the only way to get close to what was going on is via a comparison of later religious constructs. This will give you a base idea of the mental damage done to the common people - and all it did was grow totally out of proportion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion

If the picture we have is right, there was a superwave event that ended somewhere around 10,000ish BC (?).

According to the picture, ET was here.

The oldest "nebula" depiction I have found, was in the Spanish rock carving collection, C 9500 BC. So, we were told something about the Orion nebula and we would have had no way knowing what it looked like.

N America was wiped out along with the Clovis people, and there is no connection there to the nebula.

About 8000ish BC the idea of religious elite control began back in the Turkey area. Possibly could be the beginning of the proto Indo-European religious control approach.

Their approach was simple ... people new SOMETHING was going on in the sky, and because there was no defining information, this religious elite said "we know - we have the answers" ... and as usual, everyone just followed along.

We have been raised with this "just follow us" mentality all of our lives. Now it seems we have reached the end of the road, and it's time to wake up.

http://piereligion.org/pierintro.html

[Jim]

Here's another link to a rather long page that defines control a little more. This one line shows the mental control aspect that was used. Imagine being told this.

Xákʷōm Népōt guards a well which contains a fiery liquid. This liquid grants rule, wisdom, inspiration, or prosperity to those who drink it. There's a catch, though. (There always is.) Those who wish to drink from the well must deserve the well's gifts. They cannot have any moral flaws, and they must approach the well in the appropriate ritual manner. In other words, the gifts of the well are available only to the virtuous.

We'd see that as absolute BS ... but yet, we are still caught up in "other religious ideas" still in circulation today.


http://www.ceisiwrserith.com/pier/deities.htm

[sunbern]

wow ,a picture has formed in my mind of a row of gods/et's  `teaching ` the most respected tribe/clan leaders in their own speciality ,in a way similar to schools now ( in say turkey which seems to be where it all began ) ,do you really think that is a possibility ? it may have happened more than once but it does go a long way to explaining the jump start humanity had .maybe they have steered us on a path of their choosing right from our creation ( by them ) it does go some way to explaining why neuclear warheads are dissarmed and relative stability has been in place now for nearly a century .I think we have managed to keep things together ( pretty much and with their help ) for a purpose designated by them and now there are a fair few of us I'm thinking that purpose may soon be revealed ....how do you fancy re colonizing another planet my friends ?

[Jim]

I wouldn't go off the deep end constructing a "detailed" picture, simply because we can't. The "steps" are there, but the how's and why's aren't.

[Dreamwalker]

Thats an interesting theory you have there Sunbern.
That idea of having to be virtuous to use the gifts of the well,follows through to paganism,etc as well as those who can communicate through other senses or receive information that way.you should harm no one,and not use what abilitys you may have for personal gain or to manipulate others or situations.obviously there are many who do just that.Not religious as such,but still a similar message,though it is common sense too at least you would think,i dont mean being perfect,virtuous and all that,but just not harming anyone nor doing things for personal gain,in that if you have those abilitys,then use them wisely,and know what you have and what you are doing and be grateful.

[sunbern]

it's hard not to wonder what we are here for I mentioned it to Brenda last night on the phone and she said the same as you jim we cant fill in the pieces by guesswork ( it was just an idea anyway ) she told me that an average of 200 people go missing without trace from the us alone every day if you roll that out globally they COULD take more than enough to start new colonies elseware ..she said the ones they want know pretty much as soon as they find their consciousness when they are very young and that it doesn't necessarily follow that because one member of a family( the mother or father ) caries the `connection`( for want of a better word ) it will be transferred to all the siblings ,in Brenda's family only her brother and her daughter's daughter have the ability to `receive` communication ,I wonder if this ability was given to the early leaders ( there I go agen surmising ) ...

[Del.]

When just one percent of the population own most of the wealth at the expense of the other ninety nine percent? Is there an alternative?
Considering themselves more advanced and having the ability to intervene almost at will, ET's  have shaped the fabric of society, showing about as much consideration for humanity as our industrial food chain does for animals. We are not alone in the universe, an inter dimensional alliance has been working behind the scenes, in the shadows, pulling the strings of authority, its agenda is maybe to hybridise new physical forms here on earth. The Alien Intervention very much exists, they are the 'mechanics' of the matrix in which we live.
Humans have been one stage within that agenda. Their purpose would seem to be to create a subservient species that can be controlled and manipulated for their own agenda.

"Where are they? Where's the evidence?" Well firstly they can be observed by their effects - the steady takeover of society by 'elite' groups working on their behalf.  Especially when you consider the outright lunacy that masquerades as 'leadership' within society these days, which is leading to the rapid decline of our planet.

[Jim]

( there I go agen surmising )  ...

Nothing wrong with that, as long as it stays in the "still trying to figure it out" category on the shelf in your head.

[Jim]

Thats an interesting theory you have there Sunbern.
That idea of having to be virtuous to use the gifts of the well,follows through to paganism,etc as well as those who can communicate through other senses or receive information that way.you should harm no one,and not use what abilitys you may have for personal gain or to manipulate others or situations.obviously there are many who do just that.Not religious as such,but still a similar message,though it is common sense too at least you would think,i dont mean being perfect,virtuous and all that,but just not harming anyone nor doing things for personal gain,in that if you have those abilitys,then use them wisely,and know what you have and what you are doing and be grateful.

And I'll bet that's the way it was before the religious elite screwed with everyone's head and blew the "life picture" up into something it never was. I remember reading that "gold" was one of the things they were looking for, and this was before anything popped up in Egypt that we know about.

Sociopaths understand "mine" ... what they don't get is - "yours."

[Jim]

When just one percent of the population own most of the wealth at the expense of the other ninety nine percent? Is there an alternative?
Considering themselves more advanced and having the ability to intervene almost at will, ET's  have shaped the fabric of society, showing about as much consideration for humanity as our industrial food chain does for animals.

OK, but what about the Clovis people? None of that "control" stuff existed back then, and yet, they were wiped out by the solar (or whatever) event. Is it that ET didn't care - or is it that since it seems the people had no data, hence no clue what was going on, they could not be dealt with because there were too many people, and they couldn't deal with the panic. We see ourselves in a lone picture here ... how many times has this happened on OTHER developing planets, and a rule of thumb was formed?


We are not alone in the universe, an inter dimensional alliance has been working behind the scenes, in the shadows, pulling the strings of authority, its agenda is maybe to hybridise new physical forms here on earth. The Alien Intervention very much exists, they are the 'mechanics' of the matrix in which we live.
Humans have been one stage within that agenda. Their purpose would seem to be to create a subservient species that can be controlled and manipulated for their own agenda. "Where are they? Where's the evidence?" Well firstly they can be observed by their effects - the steady takeover of society by 'elite' groups working on their behalf.  Especially when you consider the outright lunacy that masquerades as 'leadership' within society these days, which is leading to the  rapid decline of our planet.


Is it? Or is it just that this is OUR planet and WE call the shots? Unfortunately, we have allowed all of this control crap to exist, and we are now stuck in a picture of our own doing. I can say the same thing about understanding this picture as I can say about the rise of religious control ... this picture did not exist before the rise of the religious elite ... we just lived our lives and that was it.

I think we are missing the point entirely ... earth for us is where life begins - and it continues after death. Considering the picture as I understand it, just looking at the component parts, "ET" (as we call them) handles the physical / developmental aspect, and "the other side" (for lack of a better term) handles what comes next. This simply means the "ET" picture and the "paranormal" picture are not two separate topics, they are one topic. They both share the vertical paradox of "not telling us anything" as if working together to let us make up our own minds regarding life here. If we all "knew" what the story was because of hard data intervention from them, "bad people" couldn't be separated from "good people" because the manipulative "bad people" would pretend they were good (because sociopaths are NOT stupid - they'd figure it out). It seems everyone is going to wind up where they belong at death, and it's all determined by us.  

ET has not done ANYTHING to us since this subject began. Are there "bad ETs?" Really? Where the f*ck are they? All I hear are the usual stories - but where is the proof? "No proof stories" are how the religious elite gained control over the common people. The ET subject has been nothing but "stories" from the beginning. My experiences were NEVER stories, in fact the picture was the direct opposite. I had to figure out what was going on based on "someone" pointing in a particular direction. Basically - "go over there and look through the historical information." Then when I had enough - "Go over there and look." It took me YEARS to even figure out this is a legitimate method of teaching called constructivism where there are no given STORIES ... only data that needs to be straightened out and finalized.

So what about the "abduction" nightmare stories (that seem to have vanished of late)? We know there is "bad" in the paranormal subject - people left here where they came from when they die. The overall picture shows personality traits that are identical to ours ... good, jokers, wise-asses, different levels of "bad", sociopaths, and down-right psychotics. If I had to choose between them and ET causing the nightmarish problems we have read about - guess who I'd choose   It's the exact same picture as goes on every day on this planet. ET let's it happen ... we have a brain - can we figure it out? It's just another aspect of constructivism ... YOU figure it out based on the data picture.

[Dreamwalker]

Sunbern,have you ever listened to the coast to coast shows when David Paulides is on ? he started out as a bigfoot researcher but discovered how many people were going missing from national parks in America in very strange circumstances.some of the stories are really odd,featuring toddlers or the elderly that disappear,the ones that are found have sometimes supposedly crossed.lakes,mountain ranges,etc covering huge distances in bare feet,most people are never found.this is happening in America,Canada,and europe.There are no lists of those missing and the park staff do nothing about it,they dont want the publicity.the cases are fascinating and seem unexplainable.sometimes the childre who are found report that they were taken care of by bear type animals.
It would also be interesting to know Brendas take on it.
if you havent heard of these cases,just google coast to coast and David Paulides,there are some of the shows availiable on you tube,i think you will enjoy listening to one or two,just to get the picture.
Are there any abduction cases where a person has been killed by ETs ?? ive never heard of any myself.apart from possibly the guy who was found on top of the coal heap.im wondering with the scary abduction cases,that they were not actually scary,but the abductees were scared of what they were seeing because they were previously non believers,thats where the fear comes from,in that they discover all those stories are actually true and we are not alone.this fear then makes the procedures etc seem much worse,i mean after all,most medical procedures are quite unpleasent,so couple that with been taken by something you never believed in ,it would follow that you would see it as bad,when in fact it wasnt,it was your fear that made it bad.

[Jim]

I've heard about the disappearances - no data - no clue.

With regard to "medical"-type experiences ... why would a technologically advanced race need to do poking and prodding to get information they could get from a blood test at least? Look at us - I can have the O2 levels in my blood checked by just having a simple little non-invasive clip put on my finger. I can't even tell you how that works

I say it's a mental paranormal invasion. People are either asleep, or wake up from an experience (or they are just lying), and the information is put in their heads to panic them, and spread the panic. This is the exact same picture that happens to people who believe they have "seen" their previous lives while they sleep. It all has to be sorted out, but it's either AS BAD up there as it is here, or, it's all an effort to scare the crap out of us until the event hits.

I mean really - if anyone else was doing this, we would have no problem seeing them intertwined with the paranormal ... so what changes when the "elite" do it?

[sunbern]

one thing that struck me in your last post dreamwalker was the similarity between folks just walking out into the wilderness so to speak and the `draw ` exerted on the main characters in the film close encounters ,it is as though we are being drip fed these effects in a a kind of preparatory way but on the negative side films like independence day totally blow this theory out of the water ,which is right ? I know which scenario gets my vote .

[Dreamwalker]

I think its probably that thing,where unless you see it,you dont really believe it.
I wonder if bad memorys are deliberately placed there though so people dont talk about it,to scare them.i know none of the cases can be proved,but there are people who have been left with marks,scars,burns,scoop marks,needle marks,etc,as you have Jim,and i,it seems as though there is more going on there,i mean why do it?whats the purpose? i agree these subjects are entwined,but some cases seem far from the paranormal ghost/entity type experience.

[Dreamwalker]

In those cases Sunbern,it would not be phyically possible for those age groups to travel the distances they do,even on the time scale.there are hundreds and hunderds going missing in this way every year.in some cases the clothes are folded neatly and the shoes and socks ,which a toddler could not do.in one case clothing was found as though the person had simply stood there and dropped them off there body while stood in the middle,the socks were found to have toe and feet bones within them.people literally disappear from being maybe one/two seconds ahead from their freinds or family,like they go round a tree and are just gone,vanished.The largest age group are very young childre,and the elderly,though there are lots of cases of other ages.all are camping or hiking,huge search parties and dogs are sent out initially,rarely is a trace found.on at least one occasion the military were called in and would not allow others to search nor give them any information.after the initial searches they just give up.
I agree we are being drip fed,but in a negative way,we all know how that would end up,with the military and other people,shoot first ask questions later.

[Jim]

I think its probably that thing,where unless you see it,you dont really believe it.
I wonder if bad memorys are deliberately placed there though so people dont talk about it,to scare them.i know none of the cases can be proved,but there are people who have been left with marks,scars,burns,scoop marks,needle marks,etc,as you have Jim,and i,it seems as though there is more going on there,i mean why do it?whats the purpose? i agree these subjects are entwined,but some cases seem far from the paranormal ghost/entity type experience.

The scratches I got were hints to the subject. The only one that never made sense was the M on my stomach that ended in my navel. It wasn't until fairly recently I tripped over the M connection to Virgo and Scorpio. At the very least it's a connection to the feminine figure and the galactic center.

As far as a paranormal connection, me thinks there is more going on in that invisible world than we know about. If the spirits that claimed to be "Master Spirits" in Many Lives, Many Masters are lying (and they are), what else have they been up to that we know nothing about? This kind of crap goes WAY beyond the paranormal picture we have.

[Del.]

Abduction research has not yet produced answers, but there are certainly different theories to be had. Unfortunately, these theories rest on a very partial, highly selective use of the data, rather than dealing with the complexities of the entire, reality of the abduction scenario.

Was the person lying?
Was it a real event, or did it occur on a mental level?
What parts of the recollection are real, and which are illusionary?

It may very well be both possibilities at once, both real and mental, real and illusionary. The aliens, whether by intellectual, psychic, or technological means, are able to create any perception, and therefore any illusion, for the person in their hands. Some people believe that abduction activity is perpetrated by humans rather than aliens, carrying out massive mind-control experiments for some unknown purpose. They argue that the agents of this activity would have access to “subjects” through the families of those in the military and intelligence organizations.

Do ET's have an even broader agenda encompassing many worlds that involves exploitation and trafficking in earth human genetic material, foetuses, etc ? In the past the black African leadership sold their own people to the enslaving more technologically advanced European and American slavers as trade goods for metal weapons, cookware, ornaments and rum. Could the reasoning and justification be the same today as in the past, “if you can’t beat them join them”? Is history repeating itself, but this time the technologically superior unethical race is extraterrestrial.

[Jim]

About as much as I can say, which will pretty much bring us full circle, is that my final conclusions seemingly echoed Fulcanelli's added chapter that popped up just over 60 years BEFORE I reached said conclusions, and their esoteric story goes on from there. In the overall picture, no one has told us anything - why is that? In the overall picture there is conflicting information of all sorts, that steers the general population AWAY from this topic - why is that?

If everything in this context is put together to form a picture, one has to conclude that:

1) it is coming.
2) the leaders want us to die.

There isn't anything else one could conclude.

People spend their time looking at the material that has no answers, and they continue to get - nowhere - which would be what our leadership wants.

Add to this the oddest of anomalies, where "UFO researchers" refuse to listen to this scenario - the last one said that "It was beyond my scientific expertise." Really? Why would that be?

THIS is the picture we SHOULD be looking at - the all inclusive picture - where questions regarding the lack of answers have a place that fits, and actually makes sense. Yeah, how much of the confusion factor is an ET input scenario? Technically, it wouldn't matter, because if the "good guy / bad guy" ET scenario DOES exist (and we don't even know THAT for sure) then the human race will be divided up between them, and the people who know what is going on will go with "the good guys" and the others will go with the "bad guys" or will just be left here to die in the event, and then they get to deal with "the other side."

We either deal with what we have, instead of what we DON'T have, and try to fit it all together, or everyone should just go home and watch TV.

[Dreamwalker]

Good Post Del.
Can we fit it together Jim ? What do we have ? apart from experiences we have had personally,what do we know thats true,fact. ?
If the confusion is there purposely,then why ? if they or some are good,why hide? why no answers.
Is having no answers really a bad thing ? maybe the truth is so screwed up its better we dont know.
From the confusion aspect,it would seem a huge game is being played,if so this would seem to point that these are not good guys,if not then the abilitys/powers/whatever these possess must be huge,i mean they have the planet on lock down,doesnt matter if you are good or bad,you still have no answers,these would be all knowing ETs,in that they would seem to know everything about us and anyone we knew,know, come into contact with.they seem to be able to do anything,wipe your memory,add things that maybe didnt happen,inflict physical marks upon your body,be able to literally pull you away from your computer,be able to stop you typing,stop you being able to speak,have control over your body,be able to do things to you that you cant stop.
these are real things,things that happen and a lot more beside,it isnt in the mind,imagined,made up etc etc.
what can do that ?

[Jim]

apart from experiences we have had personally,what do we know thats true,fact?

I was never "told" anything ... and I know the answer to that question. History. The key to interpretation? Begin at the beginning, continue on until you reach the end; then stop.

The beginning has to be C 40,000 BC because that's where the information stops.

Where does the base picture change, and why?

There is no sign of confusion on any level until the religious elite pop up and "control" appears in the picture - that has continued to today.

Why is it that there is no sign of ET confusion - until today - seemingly the time "it is coming?"

I was just looking at some 20 year old files ... we created A LOT of the confusion.

I'm not confused ... and again, the only difference in my picture is that I stay on topic. It's kinda like eating food ... some will make you sick, some is good for you. If you like being sick, keep eating the crap. You go around and around in circles, worrying about the aspects we have no solid information for. If you spent half of that energy trying to figure out what we DO have, you'd be better off. I see it too ... but it's shelved until I can get some hard data. Like I said, we created a lot of it, and that stuff is simply eliminated.

"Somebody" wants us to know this stuff ... despite the negativity in the picture. I wonder why

I'm headed out ... I'll be back

[sunbern]

glad to hear it jim ,,hopefully by next weekend Brenda will have her new laptop and is keen to join us ,I really think she can add a lot to our discussions and although she is very much in demand by many people involved in our subject ( she has declined many radio requests and interviews this last couple of years since her stroke ) she will talk to us and I think we will find her help invaluable ,many of the topics we have recently covered she has personal experience of and knows very many people who can answer questions that she cant ,lets hope this helps us to open some of the locked doors we seem to have in our way.. it was the todmorden case dreamwalker ( where the body was found on the coal heap ) and it still remains a mystery to this day how the body got there without disturbing the coal heap ,it seems it was dropped from above but very carefully because no coal was displaced by all accounts and not a sign of coal on feet or hands ..Brenda will explain what happened to our friend Derek's brother in the forest ( if you ask her ) it still remains one of the most incredible` harm mark` incidents we have come across .I'm not biased she IS amazing ...

[Dreamwalker]

I get what you are saying Jim about shelving it til we get more information,but just looking at these things as a whole,much of it seems to be deliberate confusion,and doesnt seem to be on the good side,not that i believe that,but it just looks that way,but then maybe its meant to.
bloody mind boggling.
Might not be on much over the wknd,my partner is coming to stay.
i will be back......

Looking foreward to hearing Brendas take sunbern.

[sunbern]

me too dreamwalker ,have a good weekend..just going to have a listen to that u tube link you suggested ....

[Jim]

I get what you are saying Jim about shelving it til we get more information,but just looking at these things as a whole,much of it seems to be deliberate confusion,and doesnt seem to be on the good side,not that i believe that,but it just looks that way,but then maybe its meant to.
bloody mind boggling.

Confusion is meant to do exactly that - confuse. Now why would that be necessary

We can take a break and the weekend off ... this is a long vid and I'm still listening to it.

Consciousness Independent of the Brain - Dr. Bruce Greyson

[sunbern]

https://youtu.be/N6OKfVQSccs

                     incredible  jim ,I was blown away by what I heard there and above,maybe we are looking in the wrong place for your superwave have you considered the possibility that it may be an experience we will find closer to home even a form of `awakening ` within our own brains. those scientists are saying we are on the verge of a breakthrough in quantum science and understanding conciousness something is definitely coming together

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