Re: Study Hall.

sunbern Thu Mar 07, 2019 4:15 pm

ok so they know ,surely they don't like ? maybe underground bunkers and the like wont be enough ( imagine another major flood ) i think the best that can happen is a cleansing of the planet .Hopefully they (et's ) have already saved humanity and even more hopefully have corrected THEIR mistakes .To be brutally honest i am amazed they have let things go on as they have for as long .By far the major part of the human race is just a scourge on this beautiful world ( it could be so different and surely once was ) .I for one would'nt blame them it makes sense to me .While i'm asleep would be preferable though hide

**Jim** Thu Mar 07, 2019 5:52 pm

Honestly, I'm not worried about it ... it's gonna be what it's gonna be. I could be totally wrong, but with the info we just looked at, it seems I'm not.

I dunno. dunno

sunbern Fri Mar 08, 2019 3:23 pm

I look around me Jim and every day many species become extinct because of THEIR monumental cock up .It just goes to show what happens when another species messes with a planets natural development.They obviously didn't watch star trek who's mission was to boldly go to out and discover other civilizations . Their prime objective was to NOT f--k with them ( literally ) Exclamation

**Jim** Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:38 pm

Well that book on ponerology explains it - it isn't a case of "us" as much as a defective version of "us." It was weird, I had the same picture in my head, but after reading it - things got a wee-bit more real. Had the defect(s) never shown up, I think we'd be fine today.

Brenda Marguerite Sun Mar 10, 2019 2:46 pm

wiki observation " A form of government interesting to ponerologists is one they have called pathocracy, in which individuals with personality disorders (especially psychopathy) occupy positions of power and influence. The result is a totalitarian system characterized by a government turned against its own people. A pathocracy may emerge when a society is insufficiently guarded against the typical and inevitable minority of such abnormal pathology, which Łobaczewski asserts is caused by biology or genetics. He argues that in such cases these individuals infiltrate an institution or state, prevailing moral values are perverted into their opposite, and a coded language like Orwell's doublethink circulates into the mainstream, using paralogic and paramoralism in place of genuine logic and morality. " ( Bernie )

**Jim** Sun Mar 10, 2019 3:25 pm

Brenda Marguerite wrote:wiki observation " A form of government interesting to ponerologists is one they have called pathocracy, in which individuals with personality disorders (especially psychopathy) occupy positions of power and influence.

Yep ... are we having fun yet? whistle

If what I have is right, this started with Gobekli Tepe - and seems to coincide with it's "burial" that happened around the same time as the Anatolia overthrow (end of phase one) C 7200 BC. Unfortunately - it came back. really

Del. Mon Mar 11, 2019 8:32 am

I don't doo Hoagland at all but found this bit of tripe whilst surfing.

A former NASA advisor has shockingly claimed that Mars was the home of ancient alien civilisation until they were all wiped out with a devastating nuclear war.

A conspiracy theorist and a former NASA consultant Richard C Hoagland said that extra-terrestrials once existed on Mars and other planets in the solar system. He argued his claim could be proven with ample of photographic evidence from Viking missions of NASA. He explained that NASA photos from the Cydonia region of Mars show pyramids, ancient habitats, and organised structures. He stressed the destructive power of nuclear warfare cut short the thriving alien civilisation in the Red Planet.

The conspiracist said the Viking lander discovered evidence of anomalous isotopes, which are known as Xenon 129. He pointed out that these isotopes strongly point towards nuclear detonations on the surface of the planet.

Mr Hoagland, together with plasma physicist John Brandenburg and a team of investigators, explored the possibility of Mars’ ancient alien civilisation. They came out with the idea that a global Martian nuclear war destroyed the civilisations they have been looking.

The theory comes from large concatenations of radioactive Xenon 129 on the Red Planet.

The radioactive isotope is usually found on Earth around the fallout from nuclear explosions and near nuclear fission reactors.

Mr Hoagland strongly believes that the entire solar system was colonised at one point and the evidence is out there to collect.

However, the likes of NASA and the European Space Agency (ESA) suppressed the information from the last 50 years of space exploration, according to researchers like Mr Hoagland.

**Jim** Mon Mar 11, 2019 10:06 am

Del. wrote:
Mr Hoagland strongly believes ....

Hoagland has been doing this for years - is it deliberate sensationalism, or is he delusional? The classic example was the face on Mars ... I don't have a problem with theorizing, and neither does anyone else - it's the arguments after being debunked that bother me.

As far as "Mr Hoagland strongly believes that the entire solar system was colonized at one point and the evidence is out there to collect." Seriously? That goes back to the 1950s movie mentality. Great for entertainment back then, but ... chuckle

https://www.google.com/search?source=hp&ei=1miGXMXkHoKGtQWZmyQ&q=richard+hoagland+delusional&btnK=Google+Search&oq=richard+hoagland+delusional&gs_l=psy-ab.3..33i160.2585.16002..17555...4.0..0.139.2126.28j1......0....1..gws-wiz.....0..0j0i131j0i22i30.qJykXRrnF5c

https://pseudoastro.wordpress.com/2012/08/07/richard-c-hoagland-et-al-on-mars-science-laboratory-msl-curiosity-landing-last-night/

Del. Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:30 am

Well I did say I didn't do Hoagland at all but the bit about the discovery of large concatenations of radioactive Xenon 129 that could be the result of nuclear detonations got me thinking. hmm

**Jim** Tue Mar 12, 2019 10:56 am

Yeah, but from that point, considering the radical idea, I would go out and see what other people had to say. We aren't scientists ... and that's where the problem begins for us. It's like the article here:
https://podcast.sjrdesign.net/shownotes_086.php

But, the second reason I stop following Brandenburg's ideas at this point is for the same reason that Lawrence Livermore National Lab stated: There are a lot of possible geologic reasons why xenon-129 is more abundant relative to 132 on Mars than on Earth. The Science article points out that some types of stony meteorites have ratios of 4.5 or as high as 9.6, which is much higher than the Mars value, indicating that Mars may be sourced from more of that primitive material than Earth was as those slowly degassed into Mars' environment.

Another model by Musselwhite, Drake, and Swindle from 1990 suggests that the iodine originally incorporated into Mars was outgassed after formation into an atmosphere, but iodine was incorporated into the crust while xenon, being a noble gas, just stayed in the atmosphere. Then, lots of impacts happened in the first 500 million years, eroding Mars' atmosphere significantly including ALL the isotopes of xenon, mostly evenly. Meanwhile, the iodine-129 in the crust is decaying into xenon-129 and very slowly outgassed. As opposed to Earth, where it would be recycled and buried in the mantle due to plate tectonics. And, ¡voilà!, Mars' atmosphere is enriched with xenon-129. No nuclear holocaust needed, and this fits with everything else we know about how the planets work and it's supported by the ratio of argon-40 to krypton-40. The only small issue for this is the timing given the fairly short half-life of iodine-129.

Because of that timing issue, others have come up with other models for how Mars' atmosphere could be enriched in xenon-129. A popular model was proposed by Swindle and Jones in 1997 that proposes Mars started not with an asteroid-like composition, but an atmosphere like the solar wind. This allows a contribution from plutonium-244 -derived xenon-136 to be present which I guess somehow helps the models more accurately produce the xenon observed. And yes, I did say plutonium. Plutonium-244 is a very heavy isotope of plutonium, has a half-life of about 80 million years, and it's plutonium-240 used in nuclear weapons ... 244 is the most stable isotope of plutonium and still found in nature and it is not abundant in nuclear reactors though some is produced in nuclear explosions. So again, while this *could* be sorta used in a very round-about way to support his claims, it's hard to get there from what we know. Not impossible, but very hard.

At the very least, from this discussion of xenon-129, the conclusion that Brandenburg made - that it's only produced during big nuclear events, is not true. It's actually NOT produced in nuclear events - except supernovae - but it *can* be produced as a by-product of what is produced by nuclear weapons or reactors.
.....................

There seems to be a big problem with Hoagland latching on to outrageous ideas ... what are we dealing with - sociopath? Pathological liar? Maybe - and it wouldn't be the first time - that was the court decision for "Erich von Däniken" - pathological liar. http://drmsh.com/chariots-frauds-real-erich-von-daniken/

Anyway ...
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/hoagland/credentials.html

dunno

sunbern Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:40 pm

Wow ,good to see you have done your homework there .From now on i am going to try for the scientific explanation ( where possible ) alongside the more outlandish claims and make my own decisions on hopefully a more level playing field .It's like the mars

creatures ,strange rock formations ,faces etc it turns out that several of them are very small ,so it is very easy to be misled and a lot of this ( including your grounding Jim ) has taught me to likewise try to do my homework .

**Jim** Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:10 pm

Welcome to constructivism instead of classical teaching. Yeah, it's a pain in the ass, yeah it can take long time, but when you are finally finished you KNOW how a thing works. The above is a first look - there's probably more out there, but that subject isn't in my "topic-basket" of things to do. chuckle

Del. Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:43 am

Homework!!! sounds like Jim was up all night.. chuckle

Well I rest my case me lud…. whistle

sunbern Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:19 am

It would'nt suprise me if he was Del ! you KNOW how seriously he takes his subject and i am glad because the rest of the social media is just bullcrap and boring in my opinion ,Thank heavens for this site All l i would say is it's testiment to our interest that we are still here after all this time ( long after i have left many other sites ) we work things out without major argument and keep chugging along .Long live Theoratorium i say Any chance you could leave topic for a day or two and help us sort this Brexit mess out Jim ! hide

**Jim** Wed Mar 13, 2019 7:31 am

Actually I don't follow "the news" and had to look it up. chuckle

Sounds like it's all about money - as usual. Since this was a WW2 problem fix and get together for peace and stability and growth - and everyone involved has "grown up" ... IS IT really necessary?

sunbern Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:49 pm

If only it was a common market instead of a list of mostly European laws i'm sure it would have been fine ,the main problem is our country is so generous half of Europe wants to come here ( and is able to under eu law ) Personally i think this country has been dragged down by the manacles of European law and now the politicians who do very nicely from the coffers of Europe have had a slap round their faces with a wet kipper from a voting majority of the British public and the slippery toads are looking for any way they can to avoid our departure looking

sunbern Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:53 pm

Trump wants a Mexican wall ,We need to block the Tunnel up !!!! chuckle

**Jim** Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:07 pm

Well, I really don't know anything about it ... if it sux - get rid of it. dunno

As far as Trump - he was diagnosed a narcissist with antisocial personality disorder and allegedly paranoid personality disorder. Why he is in the drivers seat has to do with how much the people are lost in the fog. All you have to do is watch him talk ... it's ego, all the way down the road. This picture ties in with that ponerology book.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/brainstorm/201701/shrinks-battle-over-diagnosing-donald-trump

sunbern Wed Mar 13, 2019 4:45 pm

"In contention are three significant and intertwined issues. Can Donald Trump or any public figure be deemed to have mental illness, even based on specific, well-publicized criteria reflecting observable behavior? Is it ethical or appropriate for mental health professionals to venture into public acts of diagnosis? Is psychology a suitable instrument for addressing issues of governance"

I think our government is well placed to answer that at the moment but don't hold your breath on getting an answer any time soon !!!! rotf

**Jim** Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:16 pm

Yeah ... they are programmed. It's like one shrink I was talking to about diagnosing ghosts by their behavioral techniques - and they said they couldn't do it cuz it wasn't an in office picture. Gimme a break. chuckle

Del. Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:44 am

A new 13th March 2019 video by Richard Dolan & Garry McKinnon.
I cant believe that was 17 years ago when that shit hit the fan..

sunbern Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:12 am

Del to the rescue ( i've had my fill of politics ) ,thanks mate i have always been fascinated by the Garry McKinnon affair ,will watch this with great interest

Del. Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:18 am

Nothing new in that vid Bern, all old hat stuff.

**Jim** Thu Mar 14, 2019 10:20 am

I find him very hard to understand ... between the low quality audio and the accent. But, if you pay Dolan $75 bucks a year - you can get more info. chuckle

sunbern Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:35 pm

Jim wrote:I find him very hard to understand ... between the low quality audio and the accent. But, if you pay Dolan $75 bucks a year - you can get more info.

Sponsored content